Homosexuality: a matter of choice?
I’ve heard Gibbs tell this apocryphal coming out story many times, that of a gay boy coming out to his Mom, and I keep laughing every time:
Son: “Nay, bakla po ako.”
Mom: “Sus, anak, nakikiuso ka lang!”
Moving on to a more serious but related topic… I was in conversation last Sunday afternoon among a handful of gay bloggers. We were discussing: is homosexuality in-born? Ipinapanganak ba ang bading bilang bading? Or is gayness a matter of choice, an acquired preference?
Instead of relating to you the convoluted discussion details, I summarize below my learnings, in hopes that you can comment and perhaps share your own thoughts about the topic:
1. Being gay is fundamental to the person. In-born? Most probably. An act of volition, a matter of choice? Most definitely not. Bottomline: sexual orientation is a fundamental part of one’s person, and thus unchangeable, immutable. Everything else from here on, in my opinion, is an act of volition.
2. Volition (an act of will) starts in self-acceptance. This is what I call Volition Level One. This is where most people get confused. When people say they are confused, most of the time the confusion is the result of the battle of self-acceptance. What should one do then? Since homosexuality is a fundamental part of the person, when one is “confused”, he or she should look more inward than outward. Concerns like “Will my parents accept me? What will my friends say? I will be rejected by society” are all important, but are irrelevant in finding one’s true sexual orientation.
3. After the self-acceptance part, one is then confronted with more choices. This is Volition Level Two: how will I express my homosexuality outwardly? Will I be straight-acting, butch, manly? Or effeminate, girly, swishy? Some people have natural behavioral tendencies and pre-dispositions, so it may appear that these are not choices but rather in-born too. However, since these are outward behaviors, one has a choice to modify them. One can attempt to be more butch than he naturally is. Some may find it easier than others, some may succeed, some may fail — but I maintain that this is more an act of volition than an immutable, fundamental characteristic of a person.
4. The Third Level of Volition is about articulating and sharing the knowledge of one’s sexual orientation to others. The question then is, will I come out or not? Totally an act of free will. And there is no right or wrong answer.
What do you think? Do you agree with the above statements regarding the immutability of sexual orientation? Share your thoughts, so we can learn from each other. (At, huy, baka itanong yan sa Ms. Gay! Kaya pag-isipan na! Hahahaha!)
Possibly Related Entries:
- How Will You March Your Pride?
- Gay Daddies in the Closet
- I Am Lucky To Be Gay
- Does Size Matter?
- H.O.T.Y. 2006 - Wrapping up!
- Happy Ending
- Podcast: Coming Out, part 2
- Know What You Want
September 3rd, 2007 at 5:30 pm
i dont think that its a matter of choice. siguro i can say its more of fate or destiny to be homosexual. hindi pinipili ang pagkabakla, for me its innate sa tao. hindi pinilit. ang bakla na totoo, baklang natural. un lang!!!
September 3rd, 2007 at 7:50 pm
juice ko! kailangan ba talangang i-analyze ang pagiging bading? eh ang kabadingan ay kasing tanda ng mundo!
i personally believe … that US Americans (ay teka, hindi pala Miss Teen USA to). eniwei, I personally believe that maybe we should just live our live the way it we feel it should be and then everyone will be happy. and then we can achieve world peace!
bading inside out,
anton maton
September 3rd, 2007 at 8:08 pm
Let me share some of the thoughts about this topic.
“Being Gay” is different from “To be Gay”, and for me, what is fundamental to a person is his tendency To Be Gay. There are qualities that are innate in a person, tastes we acquire, and tastes we are born with. We are born innocent, and with this innocence we assume non-commitment and non-decision to things and events, until experienced. Therefore, once this tendency is nurtured by experience with people, places and things, a decision is formed consciously or subconsciously. This is not to discount your argument that “gayness” is in-born, but this only to allow free will to exist, that must not at any time be judged as an abominating furrow or outre. We decide things we accept (I think Barbie looks beautiful). We accept things we consider truth (Barbie is really beautiful). Hence, we allow our innate qualities to be contested by our later acquired taste, and make decisions coinciding our nature, its content, and its strength. (I want to have a Barbie because she is beautiful, but I can never look like her so I don’t want to be a Barbie). (note: my example is so gay. For the record, I never liked Barbie, and never had one hahahah ^^)
How much does having a family weigh against the choice to be gay? A person may be gay but he may well want to have a family. When he chose the latter, he is not deviating from his nature, because the latter is also his nature. Thus, there must exist a decision, a priority list, a logical game we have to complete.
In regard to self-acceptance, It being a battle is a possibility. But for me, considering a lot of factors is just part of a process towards realizing which weight greater when we present ourselves choices. I call it Managing Consequences, rather than making myself believe it is battle-like that one choice is not me, and the other is me, when both are me, or partly me. This resolves a dilemma of phantasmagoria. When one chose to have a family, with inkling of him being gay, that may be bad, but that’s just a probability. Other married gay guys, have long resolved the issues about themselves before marrying and few confessed to their wives before facing the sacrament. This is not to alter the long time hypothesis that if a gay man married a woman, he is a fool. But this is just to give liberty that might resolve the flaws of the said argument, thatis… it is not always the case. You may ask one gay man: Do you have regrets having yourself closeted for all your life just to be normally right, be married and have kids? And one might answer: Is it not true, that even straight guys, in some cases, have lived all his life not being with the right woman, but lived normally right, had kids, and before he died said “I made the right choice”? Again, it is because there had to exist a decision. What I call battle here, is when one live with a credo that he can have everything he wishes for and everything he wants, when in fact everyone, straight or not straight, have to make sacrifices for a more ultimate goal. And what he might sacrifice, is not what he denies, but it is just what he can forego.
I agree when you said, that acting manly or effeminate may well be a pre-disposition too, and concurrently, in-born. That is because, we are of many names, we are of with many different groups. One is a brother, one is a corporate manager, one is a son, one is a painter, one is a catholic, and he is just One of different names, though many may believe that being gay is a way of life, but showing it is not necessarily a prerequisite to Living Gay, besides WHAT ARE THE OFFICIAL GAY ACTS? WHO SAID THAT GAY MUST BE SWISHY? DO WE HAVE OUR OWN GAY CONSTITUTION?. When one decides not to show his gayness at work (assumption: gayness is what you think gayness is; limitation: living is not necessarily showing), we can logically equate this to a depressed straight husband not showing his boss and his friends his surge of negative emotions. If you decide to call it, one being not true to himself. Then you just made yourself an entry to the world of lies. I warn you, the more you relate things and people to your own concept of lies, the more you infer people being untrue, the little your world becomes true.
September 3rd, 2007 at 8:31 pm
pahabol lang, kung pinanganak ang bakla na bakla, kung sya lang ang ginawa ng diyos na may titi, panu nya malalaman na titigasan sya sa kagaya nya na may titi, hindi ibig sabihin na kung di sya titigasan sa ibang mga nilikha, e hahanapin nya ang kagaya nya na may titi at titigasan na sya sa kagaya nya na may titi. o kung ikaw ay batang bakla, limang taon ang edad, ay nakakita ka ng lalaking hubad, gugustuhin nya bang hawakan to?
kung ang isang lalaking straight, pinanganak sa isang bayan na puro lalaki ang nakatira, at nakakita sya ng mga lalaking naghahalikan, di ba nya gugustuhing makahalik din ng lalaki pagtanda nya?
bakla bakla, panu ka ba talaga naging bakla?
September 3rd, 2007 at 8:38 pm
@Dowel Thanks for sharing those thoughts.
Me, I want to believe (and hoping badly) that it’s a matter of choice, but Im not sure yet.
September 3rd, 2007 at 9:27 pm
Of course, it isn’t a matter of choice. It’s not like one day when we turn five years old we go, “hmm, I think I’m going to be gay.” Whether we become true to our sexuality or deny it, though, is our decision.
My current “mom” dilemma is this: she’s accepted (resigned to?) my homosexuality, but she still insists that I should not act upon it. Bakla na nga kung bakla, but I should still marry a woman! She makes an example of gay men who are even more effeminate than I am yet have still married women and have kids.
It’s alright to be gay, just don’t have sex with men. *&^?
ARRGGH
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:32 pm
siyet! kinareer ang reply! next topic please. kakatamad na magbasa.
September 3rd, 2007 at 11:44 pm
A classic issue indeed, haha.
My take on things: I feel that certain people are born with the capability to become gay - some more so than others. Depending on one’s upbringing and childhood, this can go either way since we are not slaves to genetic predisposition.
Thus I think that being gay is both natural and a choice. You can be born with the inclination but it is ultimately up to the individual if he or she wants to go down that path despite all the complications that come with our lifestyle.
September 4th, 2007 at 2:40 am
ANG LALIM NAMAN NITO
September 4th, 2007 at 2:45 am
This debate has been going on for ages. One also needs to understand some of the history of the debate.
The right-wing conservatives (political and religious) would refer to it as a choice. A preference. This is because a choice can be altered*. (*for this reason I blame the right wing propaganda in causing a lot of confusion and depression in gay men and women)
The left-wing would call it an orientation. This is to say, that we do not have a conscious effort in making the decision.
Personally, I do not think it is a choice. If we did choose to be gay then that would also imply that straight men and women choose to be straight.
September 4th, 2007 at 3:13 am
The subject matter is tricky. I don’t want to be gay, but based on what I feel, I know that I am not straight. I live the way a straight man would. Given the choice, do I wish to become a full-pledge straight man? Yes I would. But the problem is, I know I am not, because I also get sexually attracted to other men. I am also currently making a choice of not engaging into a man-to-man relationship, an option that a straight man would choose. Now, do I enjoy my current lifestyle? The answer is no. Because I get aroused by men and I am not doing anything about it. I do get to women as well, but I just know that I feel a stronger sexual attraction to men. To some, they’ll just simplify it. I am bisexual, end of story. But you know what,I won’t even use that word because it’s an escapist term for me. It’s either you’re gay or straight. Since I get turned on by men, and on that note, that would mean I am gay. But what if I am compared to a man who insists that he is straight and claims that he is very much secured with his sexuality but gets to bed with other men just for the kicks… would one actually equate him as “straighter” than me, considering what he’s been doing against what I did not?
Okay, lengthy post. Sumakit ang ulo ko.
So maybe, based on experience, I can say that yes, you have a choice of acting straight and living straight. But these actions are just preventive reactions against your natural emotions, because unfortunately, emotions are something that you cannot fool or control. Living straight does not necessarily make you straight.
September 4th, 2007 at 4:26 am
being gay is not a matter of choice. i didn’t choose to be like this.i just felt it when i matured.they said it dpends on how someone has been brought up.i probably think so. as far as i can remember, since i was the youngest in the family, my bro’s and sisters were putting curlers and make up on me when i was young.they even bought me a hullahoop and they enjoyed seeing me in woman’s clothes.they didn’t know now the pain that i’m suffering from.i’m depressed because i can’t come out and i don’t have plans to.
September 4th, 2007 at 7:25 am
Why naman kailangan pang malaman ang pinagmulan?
Basta ako, I believe that I am a creation of God. Molded into his liking thus perfect in my own way. Created to fulfill the greater plan of the Lord even though maliit lang ang role ko. I really don’t have to analyze where (when and how) I came from. It’s enough to know that I am also a child of God.
September 4th, 2007 at 8:05 am
Some people are born gay, some are socalized into being gay.
September 4th, 2007 at 8:26 am
Inborn: Pagiging bakla.
Choice: Pagtanggap o Pagtanggi ng pagiging bakla.
Best regards..
September 4th, 2007 at 8:39 am
grabe, dumugo ilong ko sa pagbabasa nito. wow! I’ve always thought that readers in MGG are one whole bunch of intellectual people, I was just not ready for the depth of thoughts everyone ventured and shared.
So here’s my take on this thread. At first its really not a choice. You either grow up with this nagging weird inclination to the same sex, and one might even act differently compared to the other “boys”. Or one might just “develop” or realize this bugging desire for the boy next door later in one’s life. One may start early or late, but still, its something that “grows” in you that somehow cannot be stopped only suppressed. Later, upon realization, then it becomes a choice. Either to live it out or not. Either to embrace who your deep self says who you are or what society dictates who you must be.
Its an emotional and intellectual inner battle where winning is subjective. In the end, someone would always result to either being happy or sad… or just plain afraid, which in turn makes the battle a continuous and endless charade, until one actually makes a final decision.
Maiba lang ako…Last week, I’ve accepted that I’m gay/ bi, but have chosen to live a straight life. Pero grabe, aside from chinitos, weakness ko ung intelligent mind ni dowel… grabe, sexy… hehe… sorry migs ang hina ko talaga…hehe
(pwede kaya from ken’s bitch maging dowel’s bitch ako… hehe… joke)
September 4th, 2007 at 9:37 am
Hi Migs,
Ayoko sana mag-comment, parang gusto ko sana forever reader na lang ako, hehehe.
Pero baka naman nagiging madamot na ‘ko.
Gusto ko ang sagot ni Anto Maton, simple, pero malawak ang sinasakop na kahulugan. Kung ang allowed na comment ay short phrase lang, ganito rin ang isasagot ko.
Pero yon nga, dahil sa haba ng panahon, naging komplikado ang isang bagay na dapat sana ay simple lang. Hindi choice ang pagiging bakla, katulad din naman na hindi choice ang pagiging lalake o babae. Pero habang lumalaki ka (syempre maraming tawag ang iba’t-ibang disiplina o pag-aaral sa stage na ito) maraming bagay na nakaka-apekto sa paglaki mo, at sa ayaw at gusto mo, may epekto sa ‘yo ang kapaligiran.
May pinsan akong lalaki, bunso sa 6, ang lima ay puro babae. Ang tatay ay sundalo kaya laging wala sa bahay. No’ng maliit pa siya, manika ang laruan niya dahil ito ang laruan ng mga kapatid niya. Yong binibiling baril-barilan ng tatay n’ya, sinisira ng mga kapatid nya. Nakuha niya ang kilos, gawi, “tastes”, at “sensitivities” ng mga kapatid niyang babae. But eventually, nag-binata siya, at nanligaw. Ang problema, sa baryo nila, “babae” na rin ang turing sa kanya kaya walang nagseryoso sa mga linigawan niya. Dito na siya sa Kamaynilaan nakapag-asawa. Noong minsan na nagka-kwentuhan kami, mula nang “magkamalay” siya, alam daw niya na babae ang gusto niya. Infact, ayaw na n’yang tumabi sa mga kapatid n’yang babae nang mga 13 years old na siya dahil “tinitigisan daw siya lagi, eh syempre, bawal yon sa kasalukuyan nating kultura. Sa madaling salita, nanatili siyang lalake, sa kabila ng lahat.
Yong isa kong kaibigang lalake, nagkataong straight, produkto ng Lourdes School, puro sila lalake. Nag-iisa siyang anak kaya sunod sa layaw, medyo malamyang kumilos, siguro dahil masyadong komportable ang buhay. But nanligaw din siya ng babae at nag-asawa eventually. Medyo crush ko nga dati ito pero I’ve felt he’s to pretty for a man. Mas gusto ko ‘yong brusko, ‘yong tipo bang pag inutusan ako ng “Hala, tuwad!” eh talagang magkakandarapa ako sa pagsunod.
Pero Migs, sa lahat ng mga kaibigan at kakilala ko, supposedly, ako ang may pinaka-perpekto o at least ideal na childhood. Anim ang kapatid ko, apat na lalaking brusko, at dalawang babae. Parehong ok naman ang relasyon ko sa tatay at nanay ko. Public school ang pinasukan ko, balanse ang bilang ng mga kaibigang babae at lalake sa elementarya at high school.
Pero sa kabila ng lahat, bakla pa rin ako. Five years old pa lang ako ay alam ko na medyo “kakaiba” ako. “Galit” ako sa mga batang babae, mas kasundo ko mga kalaro kong lalake. Pero ‘yong mga kalaro kong lalake, gusto rin naman nilang kalaro ‘yong mga batang babae, lalo na kapag bahay-bahayan ang laro. Pero ako Migs, ayoko talaga pag may batang babae pag naglalaro ako ng bahay-bahayan. Gusto ko mga batang lalake kami lahat, kasi pag bahay-bahayan, may nanay-nanayan at tatay-tatayan, Ang papel na nanay ay laging napupunta sa kin syemre (subukan lang ng mga kalaro ko na agawin ‘yon sa akin!)
Yon. Sa loob ng leftist movement, na supposedly ay mas “progressive” ang kaisipan ng mga tao, malaking debate pa rin kung paano titingnan ang isyu ng kabaklaan. At ito ay sa sabila na kinikilala na nila ang karapatan ng mga bakla tulad ng sa babae at lalake. Pero sa ibang pagkakataon na ito, masyado nang mahaba. Baka patayin na ko ni Anton. (World Peace, hehe)
September 4th, 2007 at 10:50 am
@Lee: Interesting. So you actually decided to “live” a straight life. By this, do you mean the stereotypical idea of getting married, having kids and living in a house with white picket fences and all?
I don’t fully understand why people think that the gay life and the straight life is as different as night and day. It isn’t. The fundamentals are the the same. Find a partner and build a home together. The only difference is there are support systems in place for straight men and women that society, the church and the government gives.
Man, I want to show you this documentary that I have on gay men and “ex-gay” men and get some feedback on whether you resound the thoughts of the “ex-gay” men. To me it made me just go “WTF?”.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
for me it all matters on the upbringing of a person.. the influences and the environment. people are born innocent kaya sabi nga nila magingat ingat sa pinapakita sa bata at kung anong tinuturo dito.. i don’t believe it’s genetics or natural, imagine it being pass down by a family member.ano yan trono??!hehe as of choice, it only becomes matter of this if one becomes aware of the society around him/her.. realizing the difference. shall i go for it or hide?? will always be the question. weighing the consequences makes every individual different because they have different people and environment that surrounds them.
September 4th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
@Tony: hmmmm. “ex-gay man”… I really wouldn’t consider myself “ex-gay” as I know I would still have it in me (the gay part). And yes, (you may say “WTF?” now) you are right, I meant getting married, having kids living in a house - minus the white picket fences plus a dog. Forgive me for seeing a bleak future if I would ever decide to embrace the gayness of me. I beg to differ… the fundamentals are not the same. Finding a partner is way different, and you cannot really build a home. One, its harder to find a pertner, you wouldn’t know if the guy sitting next to you is as straight as ruler or can be bended at some point. You’d only be sure if he’s too obvious or you met him at bed or even at g4m. Two, we cannot get married, unless of course you’re in some country which legalizes gay marriages. Three, if any would be lucky enough to be in a 30 year relationship, unlike those that actually have the “right” to get married, you really don’t have control whatsoever if your partner of 3 decades suddenly decides to leave you… do you? Four, the only way that a gay man’s family would be complete if adoption would take place to fill in the third spot in the picture frame.
I apologize to all and to Tony if I sound a bit too negative. Yes, society, family and religion do dictate most of our gay brothers’ decisions and path. Its a sad fact. And some are just not as lucky and free…
September 4th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Being gay is an innate characteristic. For example, a guy is gay when he wants to have a one-night-stand with one of the gorgeous Cosmo Bachelors in the upcoming Bachelor Bash. However, there is another factor which matters the most when it comes to “BEING GAY”. It’s ACCEPTANCE. I can deny that I am gay even if I am gay if I don’t want to accept the fact that I am one of “US”. When you feel that you are gay, don’t deny it. Accept it and make it a part of yourself. I’m not saying that you have act like a flirty bitch and tell you’re parents that you’re gay! Just accept the fact that you are one and it’s up to you how you will live the way you are
September 4th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
@Lee: It’s not a negative view, but rather a realistic view in the Philippine setting. I respect everyone’s opinion even though they do not echo my own so no need to apologize. It’s an open “forum” (kahit comments page ito! lol). All I am trying to say is that sometimes that there are options for the gay man that we are not aware of.
That is exactly what I meant when I said the fundamentals are the same sans the social (acceptance by the majority), religious (marriage), governmental (marriage and adoption) support systems which you pointed out. I’m not saying that these are not big factors, they are. All I’m saying is that if you remove these and go to the core is there really a difference?
Regarding finding out whether or not a guy is gay, besides finding him at online boards (g4m as per your example) or clubbing (bed)…well there are a lot of people who do find their partners in different settings. These two things are, historically, considerably new, but gay men have found loving relationships even before the advent of these things (”gaydar” being a prime example).
I am not trying to advocate anything here or say that being very open with one’s sexuality is better than being in the closet. To each his own….all I’m saying, and hoping, is that when people do make a decision to which path to take their life on, it is a well informed and well thought of decision (not that I am implying that yours wasn’t, hence my questioning…I am just truly curious).
September 4th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
my buddy for a very long time once said to me that, “not because we’re having sex, bakla na din ako. I am doing this kasi kaibigan kita at bilang kaibigan, responsibilidad kong paligayahin ka.”
whenever I feel bad, yung mga salitang yun nagpapagaan sa kin. He is already married with kids and me still cruising but our “friendship” continues.
the point is it doesn’t matter kung ano preference mo at kung paano ito nagsimula. ang importante, kung paano ito tinatanggap. dahil una sa lahat, dapat ang buhay masarap at hindi kumplikado. sayang ang oras sa pag-iisip. bow!
September 4th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
The basics are the same, how society must look at gay men, and at straight guys, should coincide with how one must see everyone Human. However, we are all different from each other, and we don’t expect to be treated as for someone we are not. Thus, one may see a gay man different, and… he just simply looks at him as Human like the others… but someone that must be treated differently in some ways because he is different. This difference in treatment must not be taken as acts against gay men, because the gay man knows that he is indeed different. (you would not want your mother insisting you to get married, you would not
want be in altercation with your boss insisting that you play for your company’s basketball team, you would not want people treating you like a straight guy, if what you only want is people to see you as Human like them- someone that needs care, comfort, someone that employs basic core values, someone that needs someone, but someone different.)
Ang sinasabi ko lamang ay, lahat tayo ay tao, maging bakla ka man o hindi, lahat tayo ay dapat tingnan sa isang makataong paraan. (sa pagpili ng uri ng relasyon, sa paraan na pakikipagrelasyon, atbp) Subalit ang mga bakla ay may isang sekondaryang kultura, na syang nagpapaliwanag kung bakit, kahit maging makatao ang tingin sa atin ng lipunan ay iba pa rin ang paraan ng pagtratong marapat. Ito ay isang katotohanang dapat natin tanggapin, dahil tayo ay naiiba. Hindi ko sinasabing makatarungan ang pangkasalukuyang tingin sa atin ng lipunan, dahil hanggang sa ngayon ang Lipunan ay NALILITO pa din sa konseptong maaaring tayo lamang ang may alam. Ang direksyong akin pinupunto lamang sa ngayon ay, di natin makakamit ang PAREHONG pagtrato dahil gusto lamang natin ay maging PATAS ang lipunan, sa kung anu mang paraang naiisip nyang tama (una: dahil tayo ay nasa loob ng isang lipunan na hindi lang naman tayo ang nagpapatakbo pangalawa: that is on the assumption na hindi talaga maaarok ng lipunan ang konseptong tayo lang ang nakakaunawa).
(Hi Lee! What’s up? Hi Tony, how have you been? Hi Migs! Guys, suggest naman kayo ng fast song mula sa broadway, yung Night Fever ba fast na? lol email add ko–
September 4th, 2007 at 8:15 pm
basta sa dami ng nasabi isa lang ang say ko jan…. ang sarap maging bakla! un lang. ibang topic nmn. migs feature mo namn un lalake sa parola, i was there last night at up film institute. it was so ganda!!!
September 4th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
basta sa dami ng nasabi isa lang ang say ko jan…. ANG SARAP MAGING BAKLA!!! un lang. ibang topic nmn. migs feature mo namn un “Ang Lalake Sa Parola. i was there last night at d up film institute. it was so ganda!!!
September 4th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
eh pano naman ang mga tomboy? echoz
September 4th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
LECHE!!!! ang hahaba ng sagot niyo! ano to, pa-epalan?
MIGS, please lang .. next time dapat may word limit ang reply. otherwise, hindi kayo papasa sa 30 second limit sa Miss U Q&A!
short & sweet (but not bansot!),
anton maton
September 4th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
it is inbord, i guess. in my case, my earliest memory of childhood was me being pictured (as in “kodakan”) holding a plastic doll. i love seeing my uncles in white briefs. if ask if wanted to be gay, no. ang hirap… but here i am not out but some people will always assume i am. ang hirap kasi whther its hypocrisy or not, i am bisexual, and no woman would believe me i like them, kasi either i am “just being nice” or thinks “di kami talo” kayo no matter how i flirt with them, they feel so safe with me, never na mahalay. hay. yes its mahirap. but i do live a double life… watch movies always to cruise, go to bathhouse at some nights,… lately, i was caught by someone peeping at him while he’s dressing up. i had the most bothered weekend, in fact until now takot ako na makita niya ako sa corridor. inborn or not? i vote for inborn… (sorry nag relate din ako ng experience… but i guess this is the right forum…)
by the way, tnx Migs for this site.
September 4th, 2007 at 11:47 pm
sorry, first line pa lang sablay na… i mean inborn not inbord..
September 5th, 2007 at 2:32 am
That’s a very nice summary migs. I like the part about levels of volition. I too agree that sexual orientation is immutable. I think people who label themselves bisexual are actually confused people. I may be wrong but that is my opinion. Up to now, the nature vs. nurture debate on homosexuality is far from resolved. Scientists still don’t know, but i think some people are born predisposed to homosexuality. I thank you.
September 5th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
BASTA ANG ALAM KO, AS EARLY AS 5 YEARS OLD, TINIGASAN AKO NUNG MAKITA KO ANG KARPENTERO NAMING PAWISAN AT SHIRTLESS. THAT TIME NI HINDI KO MAINTINDIHAN KUNG BAKIT. ERGO, ANG BAKLA, IPINANGANAK NA BAKLA. CHOICE CHOICE CHUVANESCENCE.
September 5th, 2007 at 6:54 pm
@dowel: what’s up din? hehe (tama ba daw makipagflirt ako sa thread… hehe sorry kuya migs…)
September 5th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
There was a National Youth Commission study done in 2004 about the effects of poverty to the society today. This research was actually conducted in famous shantytowns in Manila and key cities of the country. There was one interesting fact that popped up: Being gay seemed like a choice among the urban poor.
One of the verbatim we picked up was, “Sa hirap ng buhay ngayon, ayoko ng malungkot. Eh, nakikita kong masaya lagi ang mga bakla. Buti pa sila, parang walang problema. Parang mas gusto ko na lang maging bakla para laging masaya. Sila maraming pera at trip.”
This also goes back to the nature vs nurture discussion.
Personally, I think being gay can sometimes be a choice. Our personality is like a sponge - it absorbs the different attributes that’s available to it. You know how when we’re younger we don’t like certain things but as we grow older we eventually change our mind and our hearts. When we were younger, somehow we didn’t like eating vegetables but as we grow older our choices change and eating vegetable is no longer a chore.
But it doesn’t mean to say as well that it has nothing to do with nature. The thing is, like dowel said, who ever said that gay boys should find other boys cute? No one did. It was something that just came to be. It something we decided to just do.
Net: being gay is both a choice and something you’re born into. I’d like to believe we’re born gay, instead. Could you just imagine if being gay was a choice, then it is possible to have a country full of gay men.
Here’s another thought-starter: have you noticed how the gaymen populace have suddenly mushroomed. It just happened…
September 5th, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Sorry Migs, but Lee… Lee dropped few words for me, and to ignore it may be contemptuously rude of me. Im good Lee. Thanks for asking. Hahaha. Sorry again Migs.
September 6th, 2007 at 12:15 am
I personally think being gay is natural to a person, just like for heterosexuals, they are born that way, so as bisexuals. it’s not a matter or preference, cause when i was in the period of denial, i wanted as much as possible to be straight, and i still turned out this way. and if i had a choice, no offense meant but i’d choose to be straight because life is difficult inside the closet.
September 6th, 2007 at 3:26 am
Frankie, I’m actually very interested to read the study that you mentioned. Any idea where I can get a hold of this?
I don’t think that the gay populace mushroomed these past years. I think that due to a lot of work done by gay advocacy groups coupled with education, the environment has become more and more accepting of gay men. We honestly have a lot to be thankful for, especially to those who kept pushing the boundaries and fighting for gay rights. This is not to say that we still have a long way to go.
September 6th, 2007 at 11:08 am
mga kapatid. meron ako nabasa na online din na tumutulong sa mga bakla na gustong magbago, merong parang support group sa manila where people gather to pray for one another and discuss the issues within them. i think nsa www.peoplecanchange.com or www.gaytostraight.org
sa america kasi talagang marami yung mga gay na gustong maging straight kaya marami counselors.
provide kayo ng feedback. salamat migs
September 6th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
this is what i think:
homosexuality/lesbianism/bisexuality:
- innate, natural
- either nurtured/triggered or subdued/suppressed by the environment/surrounding.
to accept or deny one’s homosexuality/lesbianism/bisexuality:
- it’s a choice that a gay, lesbian or bi must make:
2 most common scenarios:
1. you live a life dictated by the norms of society and dogmas of religions but deep inside you there is an emptiness that is wanting to be filled, a voice that is wanting to be heard and an anonymity that is wanting to be known.
2. you live a life of social discriminations and religious persecutions but you understand what you want/need, you speak what you think/feel and most importantly, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.
everything in life is really about the choices we make and being responsible to consequences thereafter.
September 6th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
Ang hahaba ng mga rep. >_
September 6th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
Anyway, for me, homosexuality is biological. This is because, clearly we don’t dictate to our dicks who they should get hard at. They just do. You can’t shout at your dick saying LOOK! ITS ANGELINA JOLIE NAKED! GET HARD! NO! DON’T LOOK AT BRAD PITT! LOOK AT ANGELINA JOLIE! Your dick gets hard when it wants to. Hell, even normal people agree with this. Remember the popular t-shirt where the heart of the guy is in his dick, while the heart of the girl is in her heart?
September 7th, 2007 at 8:15 am
the only choice we have is how to live our lives…other than that everything is within you when you were born…tanggapin lang na bakla ka pinanganak, bakla ka ring mamatay, but make sure you make a difference with your borrowed life.
like migs, because of him we are gathered here to discuss our own selfs…
thanks migs.
September 8th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
AHEYMEN
September 10th, 2007 at 11:32 am
it is both nature and nurture.
September 30th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
Thank you guys! This is very enlightening. Let me just share something that i’ve read along the way my search for the truth = Angelican Archbishop Benjamin Tutu of South Africa wrote, “if this sexual orientation were indeed a matter of personal choice, the homosexual persons must be the craziest coots around to choose a way of life that exposes them to so much hostility, discrimination, loss, and suffering.” Homosexuality is not a choice. It’s a way of life.
September 30th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
Can we cite some biological evidences which connect to the “nature” argument? Are we (gay men) biologically different from straight men?
November 11th, 2007 at 9:48 am
[…] Having said and plugged that, I thought to myself, paano naman ang mga bading na di pa out? Can they join the celebration without having to out themselves? How? Does being proud about our sexuality presuppose that we should be out? […]